Tell Shelley Anne: Interview with Elyssa Maxx Goodman

Author of Glitter and Concrete, A Cultural History of Drag in New York City

Elyssa Maxx Goodman is a New York-based writer and photographer specializing in non-fiction writing and documentary photography. In her book Glitter and Concrete, A Cultural History of Drag in New York City, Goodman offers an intimate and evocative history of drag in New York City, exploring its dynamic role, from the Jazz Age to Drag Race, in queer liberation and urban life.

From the lush feather boas that adorned early female impersonators to the sequined lip syncs of barroom queens to the drag kings that have us laughing in stitches, drag has played a vital role in the creative life of New York City. But the evolution of drag in the city—as an art form, a community, and a mode of liberation—has never before been fully chronicled. Goodman unearths the dramatic, provocative untold story of drag in New York City in all its glistening glory. She ducks beneath the velvet ropes of Harlem Renaissance balls, examines drag’s crucial role in the Stonewall Uprising, traces drag’s influence on disco and punk rock as well as its unifying power during the AIDS crisis and 9/11, and culminates in the era of RuPaul’s Drag Race.

The book provides original interviews with high-profile performers and has been noted as a significant contribution to queer history. It was one of Vogue’s Best LGBTQ+ Books of 2023, Booklist’s Best History Books of 2023, and a 2024 Stonewall Honor Book. Goodman’s website is elyssamaxxgoodman.com.

TGForum (TGF): As a writer and photographer you focus on arts and culture including nonfiction writing and documentary photography. Which do you prefer more writing or photography?

Ms. Goodman: I like them both. I feel to me it’s just different ways of seeing what I specialize in. Specifically I’m a documentary photographer.

Elyssa Goodman

TGF: You’ve been at your craft a long time.

Ms. Goodman: Yes. I’ve been getting paid to write since I was about 15 years old, and I have been working as a full-time freelance writer and photographer for 13 years.

TGF: That’s quite a track record. From my research your love of drag started at the age of seven when you saw a great movie, To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar. Is that when you realized you wanted to be a writer?

Ms. Goodman: The writing thing happened maybe a year or two later. I was in fourth grade, and I had a really wonderful teacher named Susan Ludwig, who I’m still in touch with. She noticed that I had an aptitude for writing and urged my mother to encourage me.

Editor’s Note: To Wong Foo is a groundbreaking gem film that was ahead of its time in celebrating the beauty and art of drag culture. It balances campy fun with heartfelt moments, touching on serious issues like domestic abuse while humanizing its LGBTQ+ characters. 

TGF: What’s your favorite part of being a writer?

Ms. Goodman: My favorite part of being a writer is sharing stories with other people that have been previously untold. Things that usually haven’t been said at all.

TGF: You’ve been published in in many distinguished journals and online and have had a lot of involvement with drag history and as a queer women’s history columnist. Can you delve into some of that and how it came about.

Ms. Goodman: I had the idea for my book in November 2017, and I spoke to a colleague about it for the first time in March of 2018. That same month I had the opportunity to pitch a column to Condé Nast whom I already had been writing for. It was a drag history column. At the same time, I started to work on the book.

The Queer Women’s History Column happened because my editor liked my work and assigned it to me. He asked if I wanted to write these stories for Queer Women’s History Month and of course I said yes. I had a lot of fun doing those pieces. The people that I write about in the column are not all from New York.

TGF: Then Covid hit us, and all hell broke loose.

Ms. Goodman: Well, sort of. I got my book deal in March 2020, which was certainly a very interesting time. In a way, Covid helped me get a captive audience. I don’t know if it would have been as easy for me to write the book if not for Covid. I’m not saying, Covid was good, because it was a very difficult for all of us. The other thing about the pandemic is that a lot of people who are normally so busy had time to speak to me. An interesting development of that time period for sure, but at least for me it was a silver lining.

TGF: What motivated you to write Glitter and Concrete, a cultural history of drag in New York City that traces the emergence of drag in New York City in the early 1900s, its descent underground after the Depression and its 1980s renaissance, spurred by club culture?

Ms. Goodman:  Because drag has been a part of my life for almost 30 years, it’s become an art form that I’ve loved the entire time and in many ways is a defining art form of my life. Then the very famous drag artist Flawless Sabrina passed away in November 2017, and I wanted to make sure her stories didn’t get lost, but also the stories of everyone else who have essentially built the culture of drag that we have now, in whatever way. I wanted them to become household names too.

TGF: Did you know any of the New York area drag performers that you interviewed?

Ms. Goodman: There were a couple of people I knew, but I was also introduced to a lot of people. There were a lot of people whose work that I knew about. I was hoping to interview them, and then there was one person who knew a person and so on and I was able to be connected to them. Interestingly, I just cold emailed several people.

Sometimes just cold emailing works.

TGF: Indeed. Such as the life of a freelancer, sending emails and hoping to get a response. I go through that myself.

Ms. Goodman: Sure. Fortunately, I was able to license writing from Condé Nast to publish in my book as well.

TGF: What would you say is the most surprising thing you learned while writing the book?

Ms. Goodman: Actually, I think the favorite thing I learned while writing the book was the way that drag has been a deeply powerful undercurrent in not just American culture, but in American history. It’s behind so many aspects of the aspects of the queer civil rights movement, as well as so much of the arts and culture that we have now. I was excited to be able to tell those stories and to honor those performers and bring them to light.

TGF: Transgender rights and events are being attacked nationwide. Drag Queen story hours that have taken place around the country are being scrutinized in government circles and within the media. Your thoughts.

Ms. Goodman: What do I think about the backlash? Drag is an art form with thousands of years of history. It needs to be respected for the art form of self-expression that it is in the way that any other art form is. It is a powerful force of nature. And you know, in the same way BenDeLaCreme makes this point on an episode of The Daily Show (Comedy Central) where she appeared in 2023 and said, “in the same way that there are films that are rated for adults are rated for children. There is drag that is rated for adults and for children. The same for books or any other art form.”

These backlashes are unfortunate. They tend to come in 10-to-15-year cycles. That is something I was able to recognize while working on the book. It usually happens when men in power feel threatened. What is heartening to me is the fact that they always seem to be the ones who disappear, and drag is the thing that continues to subsist and persist and survive. It is such a powerful and positive force. And that’s also the nature of art itself. Right? Drag will continue to be those things no matter what opponents it may face.

TGF: You took a little time to think about that response. Thank you. From what I have read, the book reviews seem to be quite complementary to you.

Ms. Goodman: I’m very happy with the book and the way it’s been received.

TGF: From what you know has the book has been selling well?

Ms. Goodman: I actually don’t know too much about the sales. That’s in the hands of the publisher Hanover Square Press.

TGF: What’s your penchant for wearing leopard print and red lipstick at the same time?

Ms. Goodman: That’s just a glamorous look that I really enjoy. I like to lean into things that make me feel good.

TGF: Well, I think that look is hot and becomes you.

Ms. Goodman: Thank you.

TGF: I have an upcoming New York City visit. Is there an opportunity to see drag entertainment in New York City?

Ms. Goodman: Yes. There’s drag pretty much every night across New York City. Just Google it to check out different queer venues. There’s also a website called seethequeens.com that has a calendar of performances. That is not always the way it’s been historically. But it is absolutely an exciting time to see drag in New York. Check out the website seethequeens.com to locate New City venues.

TGF: Your book is still new. What’s on tap for your next book? I’m certain you’ve given it some thought

Ms. Goodman: I have given it some thought, but I don’t know if I want it in print. I do love working in the queer history and glamour space, so anything I can continue to do in that circle makes me very happy.

Tags: drag, featured, History

Category: Interview